Comments on: So yeah, it’s “your body”. But are you sending a different message? http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/ Lots of dust bunnies and sneezing Tue, 15 May 2012 20:57:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: On Gender Roles, Feminism and Misogyny « Political News Online http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5447 On Gender Roles, Feminism and Misogyny « Political News Online Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:29:39 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5447 [...] example of this can be seen in the comments of this discussion. Right or wrong, what most amused me about this discussion was labeling and name calling while [...] [...] example of this can be seen in the comments of this discussion. Right or wrong, what most amused me about this discussion was labeling and name calling while [...]

]]> By: Taylor http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5234 Taylor Tue, 17 Aug 2010 04:04:27 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5234 You know what's really fucking horrifying, the fact that so many people are too fucking stupid to understand the written word. I NEVER said she was asking for it. I never blamed her for his actions. I never said anything about stopping intentional predation. All I've said is that if women paid more attention to how their actions are perceived by others, they'd stand a better chance of avoiding unwanted contact from guys who don't realize their advances are unwanted. In this particular situation we have girl who is well known for her drunken promiscuity, known for her attention seeking behavior, known for making really bad decisions. So yeah if she didn't have a habit of acting like a fucking tramp MAYBE she wouldn't have been treated like one. You know what’s really fucking horrifying, the fact that so many people are too fucking stupid to understand the written word.

I NEVER said she was asking for it. I never blamed her for his actions. I never said anything about stopping intentional predation.

All I’ve said is that if women paid more attention to how their actions are perceived by others, they’d stand a better chance of avoiding unwanted contact from guys who don’t realize their advances are unwanted.

In this particular situation we have girl who is well known for her drunken promiscuity, known for her attention seeking behavior, known for making really bad decisions. So yeah if she didn’t have a habit of acting like a fucking tramp MAYBE she wouldn’t have been treated like one.

]]> By: EJ http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5202 EJ Sun, 08 Aug 2010 04:06:54 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5202 The extent of victim blaming in your post is quite horrifying. You state that for a woman to experience sexual assault she must somehow be inviting it, but unless you have an extremely broad definition of how a woman can possibly invite assault and harassment, at least in my experience, this is most certainly not true. I wear an Islamic head scarf -as well as my wedding ring- and follow a dress code where I wear loose fitting clothing and show nothing other than my hands and face. I almost never go anywhere other than the library after 10pm and, as part of my religious commitment, I generally politely decline to shake hands with men when the situation arises. Despite the fact that I make it abundantly clear that I am in no way interested or asking for any sort of male sexual attention, I have still had experiences such as a male metro employee telling me that he bets it would look really hot to get a blow job from a woman in a scarf and that he intends to masturbate to the image of me fellating him later. While in Lebanon, I once had a soldier attempt to rape me at gun point because I was walking home with a male friend at 3am and he assumed that I must have been having a sexual relationship with my friend (who, incidentally, is gay). Yes, I was out late at night and this was before the wedding ring, but I was doing nothing at all illicit, was not drunk, and was not dressed in an even remotely provocative way. I have also had a complete stranger here in DC grab and twist my breast hard enough to leave bruises from 4 of his fingers all around the breast while in an elevator at 11am. Following the line of logic in your blog post, I almost feel as though you would like me to blame myself for getting into an elevator alone with a strange man. You say that the average man would not just approach a woman in a blatantly sexual way without getting some sort of cue that he would not be rejected, but I have to hope that sexual predators aren't the average man. The fact that they are in the minority, however, does not mean they do not exist. Also, in the case you described above, one has to assume that alcohol played a significant role in the interaction. Not everyone is an elegant drunk, and alcohol may have led the assaulter to believe that his victim was giving off cues that did not really exist. It may also just have lowered his inhibitions so that he was able to just act however he wanted and try to get his penis under her skirt in a public setting. My personal experience with sexual assault has been that many men have a fantasy that , for some reason, they seem to believe a woman is obligated to fill. For some reason, there appears to be bit of a headscarf fetish out there, with a heavy leaning towards images of women in scarves giving men blow jobs, which I'm assuming led the metro employee to think that he could tell me he would be masturbating to the image of me fulfilling that role since evidentially that is all he knows of women in headscarves. I, however, do not feel that I in any way allowed that to happen. It's like men who have a airline hostess fetish or a twin fetish: sometimes people actually seem to confuse their fantasy with the reality in front of them. I think that's generally the case in situations of sexual assault. Other than the one time where there was a blatant attempt at rape with a deadly weapon, I've never felt like the men involved had any idea that I would be offended. Both the metro employee and the elevator breast assaulter seemed so excited to see me that it was more than a little disturbing. It totally didnt seem to register to them that I was an actual person beyond some sort of extension for their really, really strange fetish. I think it is much more likely that the attacker in the story above wanted to believe that his fantasy of a cute girl liking him and wanting to get with him right away in the bar was coming true after he'd had enough to drink that his judgment was slightly impaired than that the victim in question was in ANY way asking for it. The extent of victim blaming in your post is quite horrifying. You state that for a woman to experience sexual assault she must somehow be inviting it, but unless you have an extremely broad definition of how a woman can possibly invite assault and harassment, at least in my experience, this is most certainly not true. I wear an Islamic head scarf -as well as my wedding ring- and follow a dress code where I wear loose fitting clothing and show nothing other than my hands and face. I almost never go anywhere other than the library after 10pm and, as part of my religious commitment, I generally politely decline to shake hands with men when the situation arises. Despite the fact that I make it abundantly clear that I am in no way interested or asking for any sort of male sexual attention, I have still had experiences such as a male metro employee telling me that he bets it would look really hot to get a blow job from a woman in a scarf and that he intends to masturbate to the image of me fellating him later. While in Lebanon, I once had a soldier attempt to rape me at gun point because I was walking home with a male friend at 3am and he assumed that I must have been having a sexual relationship with my friend (who, incidentally, is gay). Yes, I was out late at night and this was before the wedding ring, but I was doing nothing at all illicit, was not drunk, and was not dressed in an even remotely provocative way. I have also had a complete stranger here in DC grab and twist my breast hard enough to leave bruises from 4 of his fingers all around the breast while in an elevator at 11am. Following the line of logic in your blog post, I almost feel as though you would like me to blame myself for getting into an elevator alone with a strange man.

You say that the average man would not just approach a woman in a blatantly sexual way without getting some sort of cue that he would not be rejected, but I have to hope that sexual predators aren’t the average man. The fact that they are in the minority, however, does not mean they do not exist. Also, in the case you described above, one has to assume that alcohol played a significant role in the interaction. Not everyone is an elegant drunk, and alcohol may have led the assaulter to believe that his victim was giving off cues that did not really exist. It may also just have lowered his inhibitions so that he was able to just act however he wanted and try to get his penis under her skirt in a public setting.

My personal experience with sexual assault has been that many men have a fantasy that , for some reason, they seem to believe a woman is obligated to fill. For some reason, there appears to be bit of a headscarf fetish out there, with a heavy leaning towards images of women in scarves giving men blow jobs, which I’m assuming led the metro employee to think that he could tell me he would be masturbating to the image of me fulfilling that role since evidentially that is all he knows of women in headscarves. I, however, do not feel that I in any way allowed that to happen. It’s like men who have a airline hostess fetish or a twin fetish: sometimes people actually seem to confuse their fantasy with the reality in front of them. I think that’s generally the case in situations of sexual assault. Other than the one time where there was a blatant attempt at rape with a deadly weapon, I’ve never felt like the men involved had any idea that I would be offended. Both the metro employee and the elevator breast assaulter seemed so excited to see me that it was more than a little disturbing. It totally didnt seem to register to them that I was an actual person beyond some sort of extension for their really, really strange fetish. I think it is much more likely that the attacker in the story above wanted to believe that his fantasy of a cute girl liking him and wanting to get with him right away in the bar was coming true after he’d had enough to drink that his judgment was slightly impaired than that the victim in question was in ANY way asking for it.

]]> By: Taylor http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5196 Taylor Sat, 07 Aug 2010 02:57:35 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5196 " “I’m not gay, I’m as gay friendly as a straight man could be, but if I hung around in a gay bar wearing a shirt with a pink triangle on it I’m going to create a perception that is going to send an inaccurate signal.” And the signal is: Hi. I’m a man. I’m wearing a shirt with a pink triangle on it. That is wear the signal stops. There are so assumptions related to that signal. There is no required “responsibility” that comes along with it. That’s the end. You’re a man in a bar in a tee shirt. THATS IT." Yeah, only if you are vapidly obtuse. Seriously? I mean what planet are you from? ” “I’m not gay, I’m as gay friendly as a straight man could be, but if I hung around in a gay bar wearing a shirt with a pink triangle on it I’m going to create a perception that is going to send an inaccurate signal.”
And the signal is: Hi. I’m a man. I’m wearing a shirt with a pink triangle on it.
That is wear the signal stops. There are so assumptions related to that signal. There is no required “responsibility” that comes along with it. That’s the end. You’re a man in a bar in a tee shirt. THATS IT.”

Yeah, only if you are vapidly obtuse. Seriously? I mean what planet are you from?

]]> By: "The Summer looks out from her brazen tower, Through the flashing bars of July." | Insatiable Desire http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5090 "The Summer looks out from her brazen tower, Through the flashing bars of July." | Insatiable Desire Sun, 01 Aug 2010 14:03:07 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5090 [...] So yeah, it’s “your body”.  But are you sending a different message? – by Taylor [...] [...] So yeah, it’s “your body”.  But are you sending a different message? – by Taylor [...]

]]> By: Monday Morning Quarterback « Neamhspleachas http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5069 Monday Morning Quarterback « Neamhspleachas Fri, 23 Jul 2010 22:31:25 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5069 [...] about being assaulted in a nightclub and someone named Taylor felt the need to write an entire piece in response. Taylor tells Britni to “take personal responsibility for [her] own actions.” [...] [...] about being assaulted in a nightclub and someone named Taylor felt the need to write an entire piece in response. Taylor tells Britni to “take personal responsibility for [her] own actions.” [...]

]]> By: Taylor http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5059 Taylor Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:32:43 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5059 Oh, Ok...since we can't judge a woman by her actions, by her mode of dress, by her words... Just what the fuck do we go by? The size of her tits? Her hair color? The shape of her ass? So are big tits good? If she has great big honkin jugs is she a good person then? Are only brunettes decent people? Does she have to have a perfect heart shaped ass to be worth talking to? Jesus fucking Christ...did you think about your post at all before you sent it? You do realize that you come across about as mentally adept as a window licker right? Oh, Ok…since we can’t judge a woman by her actions, by her mode of dress, by her words…

Just what the fuck do we go by? The size of her tits? Her hair color? The shape of her ass?

So are big tits good? If she has great big honkin jugs is she a good person then?

Are only brunettes decent people?

Does she have to have a perfect heart shaped ass to be worth talking to?

Jesus fucking Christ…did you think about your post at all before you sent it? You do realize that you come across about as mentally adept as a window licker right?

]]> By: Irritated http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5058 Irritated Fri, 23 Jul 2010 03:08:19 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5058 And one more thing. I fail to see the argument from feminists that when someone gives advice on how to potentially avoid being a target of rape, it's victim blaming and slut-shaming. We teach our children how to prevent being kidnapped. Don't talk to strangers. Don't go anywhere with an adult whether you know them or not unless your parents tell you directly it's ok. And so on. We are giving those children tools of self awareness. This is not to say that they'll remember or utilize those tools, but we're certainly not BLAMING them for someone wanting to kidnap them. We certainly wouldn't BLAME them for being kidnapped if they didn't follow any of the tips. This is no different than giving a woman tips on how to possibly avoid being a victim of sexual assault. A sober/slightly buzzed woman leaving a bar with a group of people is less likely to get attacked than a drunk woman walking by herself to a bus stop. Does that mean it's the drunk woman's fault if she does get attacked? Absolutely not! But hopefully that woman will be more aware of herself and her vulnerability in the future. It's about self preservation, self awareness and taking responsibility for our actions. (I'm sure one of you flaming feminists will tell me that 'taking responsibility for our actions' means that I'm blaming the victim rather than seeing it for how I actually meant it.) And one more thing. I fail to see the argument from feminists that when someone gives advice on how to potentially avoid being a target of rape, it’s victim blaming and slut-shaming.

We teach our children how to prevent being kidnapped. Don’t talk to strangers. Don’t go anywhere with an adult whether you know them or not unless your parents tell you directly it’s ok. And so on. We are giving those children tools of self awareness.

This is not to say that they’ll remember or utilize those tools, but we’re certainly not BLAMING them for someone wanting to kidnap them. We certainly wouldn’t BLAME them for being kidnapped if they didn’t follow any of the tips.

This is no different than giving a woman tips on how to possibly avoid being a victim of sexual assault. A sober/slightly buzzed woman leaving a bar with a group of people is less likely to get attacked than a drunk woman walking by herself to a bus stop. Does that mean it’s the drunk woman’s fault if she does get attacked? Absolutely not!

But hopefully that woman will be more aware of herself and her vulnerability in the future. It’s about self preservation, self awareness and taking responsibility for our actions. (I’m sure one of you flaming feminists will tell me that ‘taking responsibility for our actions’ means that I’m blaming the victim rather than seeing it for how I actually meant it.)

]]> By: Irritated http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-5057 Irritated Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:32:08 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-5057 I am really just trying to understand what Britni said. This guy tried to penetrate her? In the bar? So his dick was out, in front of everyone, and he tried to stick it in her vagina? I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that. I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm just saying that Britni's known for making things into something they're not. Domestic violence in a cleaning product commercial? PUH-LEEZE! I am really just trying to understand what Britni said. This guy tried to penetrate her? In the bar? So his dick was out, in front of everyone, and he tried to stick it in her vagina? I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around that. I’m not saying that it isn’t possible, I’m just saying that Britni’s known for making things into something they’re not. Domestic violence in a cleaning product commercial? PUH-LEEZE!

]]> By: On gender roles, feminism and misogyny. http://viewfromthefloor.com/so-yeah-its-your-body-but-are-you-sending-a-different-message/comment-page-1/#comment-4839 On gender roles, feminism and misogyny. Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:58:30 +0000 http://viewfromthefloor.com/?p=4660#comment-4839 [...] example of this can be seen in the comments of this discussion. Right or wrong, what most amused me about this discussion was labeling and name calling while [...] [...] example of this can be seen in the comments of this discussion. Right or wrong, what most amused me about this discussion was labeling and name calling while [...]

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